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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  March 30, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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eve in go. onward. today's the day. carpe diem. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it isp to you. tylenol®. campaign managers aren't supposed to forcefully throw reporters to the ground. except, she never went to the
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ground. she never even came close. she never even flinched. she didn't -- you know, if somebody grabs you, even one of the guys, even the bikers, if somebody grabs even a biker or punches you a little bit, whoa, right? i mean, the toughest guy? the toughest woman. look at her face. it's zero. they're going destroy a man's life? i told him, i said you should never settlie this case. you should go all the way. they've really hurt a very good person and it would be very easy for me to discard people. i don't discard people. i stay with people. that's why i stay with this country. that's why i stay with a lot of people in are treated unfairly and that's run one of the reasons i'm the front-runner by a lot. >> so it goes. >> good morning. wow. it's wednesday, march 30. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set here in washington once again we have senior political editor and white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein. >> hello. >> president and ceo of politico, jim vandehei.
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msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. political commentator for abc news and npr cokie roberts. and in new york, willie geist along with msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki. great group this morning. >> great group. >> a lot to get through. willie geist, not a whole lot to talk to other than, of course, the arrest of a campaign manager for the front-runner, a federal judge saying that more discovery can be opened up in hillary clinton's e-mail investigation. again, three republican candidates, all three saying they would never support each other. [ laughter ] in a zillion years it's -- holy cow. is it april? the dog days of march, my man. dog days of march. >> as of today, joe, we're officially one year and one week into this presidential campaign.
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ted cruz announced march 23 of last year and we still have hom months to go? a long road ahead of us. >> 800. >> last night at the cnn town hall event, all three of the candidates said "that pledge we signed in the fall? forget it, out the window." donald trump last night talking about the three most important roles of the federal government included health care and education. that coming from a republican presidential candidate. this place is up for grabs. >> fascinating. willie, that is facinating and being critical of scott walker for not raising taxes and cutting education and cutting taxes when he should have raised tax which is goes to what conservatives and saying and mika and i have been saying for some time, donald trump is not only a conservative, he's not really a mainstream republican. this is a guy who's been at least a moderate democrat his entire life and is completely reshaping the ideological boundaries of the republican
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party. >> and he did it again last night on the question of abortion, too. he said look, i like to change my mind sometimes, people change their mind. he went to the issue of abortion and said when i talked about abortion back then i was a businessman, i didn't think anybody was listening, i didn't think it mattered what i said but now i'm strongly pro life. so he's kind of all over the place on this stuff. >> yes, he is. and as you mentioned, it appears now all three republican candidates are backing away from their initial pledge to support the party's eventual nominee. remember the hand raising incident? here they are in the town hall last night. take a look. >> essentially you're saying it's in the balance. you're kind of waiting to see? >> well, i would say that that would be a good way to describe it. i have to see what happens. if the nominee is somebody that i think is really hurting the country and dividing the country, i can't stand behind them. we have a ways to go. let's see how to this all folds out. >> so far is it fair to say that you believe donald trump looks like he would harm the country
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if he was the nominee? >> that will be up to the voters. i won't get into that. that's too much below the belt. >> i'm not in the habit of supporting someone who attacks my wife and attacks my family. i think that is going beyond the line. >> so i have to follow up. if donald trump is the gop nominee, would you support him? >> let me tell you my solution to that -- [ laughter ] donald is not going to be the gop nominee. we're going to beat him. [ cheers and applause ] >> i will assume by you not saying you will support him that the answer is you would not support him. >> i gave you my answer. i think nominating donald trump would be an absolute train wreck. >> when i was pressing senator cruz on it, it sounded like he was saying he'd have a hard time supporting somebody who went after his wife. >> he doesn't have to support me. i'm not asking for his support. i want the people's support. [ applause ] >> do you continue to pledge whoever the republican nominee is? >> no, i don't anymore. >> you don't no. >> no, we'll see who it is? >> you don't promise to support
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the republican nominee? >> he was saying the same thing. let me tell you, he doesn't have to support me. i have tremendous support right now from the people. >> cokie, you kind of laughed. "he doesn't have to support me." it's donald trump. and, again, this is what politicians don't understand. everybody else won't answer the question, won't answer the question and they're wondering why people are supporting this guy despite all the offensive things -- all the things that offend us and offend new york and washington, it's because he answers the question "i don't need the support" and secondly "i'm not going to be supporting him." >> and what you're saying is what the voters coming out of the polls say. he tells it like it is. >> hasn't played the dumb game. >> but really the republican party is in trouble here. >> oh, my gosh. cokie, can you recall a time when it was ever -- any party was ever this fractured when you had three people, three finalists saying no, we will not support each other? >> they certainly have not been
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that open about it. we saw in '64 the republicans getting at each other's throats in the goldwater nomination but this is -- this business of saying we won't support the nominee is unique. >> i want to go back to something you said. i don't think we should overlook it. you referenced the ideological boundaries of the gop and how that's being reshaped by donald trump. i think this is a seminal moment from a substantive issue perspective of how the party reaffirms its commitments to to the things it always espoused. you have someone who is the front-runner bushing those boundaries on taxes, on trade, on a lot of the things the gop has held very firm on, yet you have this surge within the party looking past those limits that we won't raise taxes.
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>> it came into education with dwight eisenhower. certainly the federal government has been in health care with medicare and the expansion of medicare under gorge bush so i think the republican party has been in that place, it just hasn't talked about it. >> yeah, but -- not while they're running. michael, what if i told you a year ago that the guy that was going to be in first place -- forget the circus sideshow stuff -- would be pushing for more money for education even if you have to tax for it, pushing for a lot more infrastructure, a lot more transportation send in, universal health care, going against free trade and also talking about taxing the rich. >> i would say he would not be the leading nominee for gop. >> you'd say he wouldn't be at 1%. >> welcome to 2016. >> but i think we're missing something here. donald trump, not just that he's unorthodox as a conservative, which he is. >> well, he's not a
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conservative. >> or as a republican, whatever you want to say, it's that he's shift organize asymmetrical, whatever you want to call it. so while he wants to protect the federal government's role in education, for instance, not so long ago he called for abolishing the department of education, those two things can not coexist. that's the federal government's role in education on one hand and then he wants to abolish it on the other. so it's tough to pin down what he believes. >> well, i have a zinger back for the huffington post. not long ago you had him in the entertainment section. >> i know but i thought we had moved beyond that, mika. you and i said we were done with that. >> well, because things change. go ahead. >> stipulating that donald trump is totally inconsistent on his policies, the one things he consistent and you talked about this yesterday morning where i think there's a huge disconnect between the coast and what's happening with the republican party in the country and that is if you think about the base,
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disenfranchised white americans who feel like the country they knew is slipping away from them and they feel like they don't have a safety net, then you understand, okay, i get why he's saying this about entitlements, i get why he's saying a robust presence for the federal government in education. >> but whaurp jut you were just describing is an old-fashioned conservative southern democrat. someone who was for all kinds of government programs that helped poor people but -- >> my parents in the depression, in the deep south. and a lot of other people in the deep south and you -- again, you look at all of these thing he says he's supporting, it is what some conservatives in the deep south at least supported before. again, go back -- what's the statistic we need to focus on in understanding trump's voters? it's what we've been quoting for
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five years from jeffrey saks. real wages for white men in america have been on the decline since 1973. not 1993, since 1973. some cokie's exactly right, jim's exactly right. >> sam's exactly right. [ laughter ] >> that when he's talking about we need more transportation, that needs more jobs. we need money for education. we need universal health care, that's the safety net. these working-class republicans and democrats are supporting that. >> and it also gets to where we're going now this next story and why the reaction, i think, is going to be different than what people in the media think. we'll start with this, though. last night ted cruz tried to explain why he's only recently decided to get so tough on donald trump. >> back in december you tweeted "the establishment's only hope, trump and me in a cage match, sorry to disappoint, donald trump is terrific." that was after he already made fun of carly fiorina's face, that was after he'd gone after
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megyn kelly. at this point in december, did you believe donald trump was terrific? >> i knew the media was engaged in a love fest, giving donald trump $2 billion in free media. >> sounds like you were engaged in a love fest. >> how many hours of free media does cnn and fox and every other station, you let him call in and for a year -- >> we've asked you for interviews everyday and you've declined every time on my program. >> i've been inviting donald trump for several days to make this a debate. >> i can't. >> let's just stop right there. amen to anderson cooper because you know what? all of the candidates that whine about people are letting donald trump call in -- >> free media. >> the free media. it's available to them, too, but they obviously aren't smart enough to be able to handle it. so ted cruz whines about secnn d fox letting donald trump call in and yet ted cruz, as anderson
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cooper said "we offered it to you everyday." as we offer it to any major candidate that wants to call in and talk to us. our fine lines, as they say "our phone lines are open now and you can call in right now." willie geist, the seventh caller gets a free date with you. [ laughter ] but willie, seriously, this is what we heard. we have the same people that -- i'm just going to say it, bitch and whine about never being -- donald trump is on too much, we invite them everyday, it's a standing offer everybody and nobody calls in but donald trump. >> and it goes for both sides, by the way, democrats and republicans. we've said the same thing because we get those complaints on the air, we get them off the air privately that you give too much time to donald trump. we've got three hours every morning, the door is open. i think to anderson's original question, though, it gets to that thing where lindsey graham is now backing ted cruz after he said he was poison or being shot. it gets to that thing about chris christie or ben carson backing donald trump. americans watch this political
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process and they say this is completely disingenuous. you have politicians rallying behind people they thought were the worst thing in the world and why? why ted cruz? why did you say donald trump was terrific? we know you didn't mean that. it's part of the reason donald trump is doing well. he's perceived, at least publicly, as being a guy who cuts through all that. a guy who doesn't play any of those games so i think there was more than a kernel of truth in anderson's question and ted cruz had a tough time answering it. >> also in that town hall, donald trump defending his campaign manager corey lewandowski and disputed the allegations made by the reporter against him. >> she said she went to the ground or something to the effect she almost went to the ground, she was in pain, she went to the ground. when she found out there was a security camera and they had her on tape, suddenly that story changed. >> that tru's not true. she said she was knocked off balance but remained standing. >> you mind if i read you her statement? she says, michelle fields who,
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by the way, she's not a byaby. in her own words "i was jolted backwards." she wasn't. "someone grabbed me tightly by the armed a yanked me down." she wasn't yanked down. she didn't even have any expression. if somebody in this audience gets whacked or hurt, including me, you get hurt, you go wow, there's no emotion. wait a minute "i almost fell to the ground." i almost fell to the ground, she didn't almost fall to the ground. he got in her way -- by the way, she was grabbing me. am i supposed to press charges against her? anderson, my arm is just killing me. it's never been the same. >> you suggested you might. >> excuse me. i didn't suggest. >> yeah, you did. >> i tweeted. >> a tweet is a suggestion. >> i asked, should i press charges. >> are you going to? >> i don't know, maybe i should, right. >> i didn't suggest, i tweeted. >> trump spent much of the day yesterday defending his campaign manager corey lewandowski after he was arrested for allegedly grabbing the arm of former
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breitbart reporter michelle fields, i believe it was for assault, not grabbing the arm. lewandowski is facing a criminal charge for battery or unwanted touching, a mi misdemeanor. the actions happened after trump's election night conference on march 8 as trump was exiting the ballroom when fields approached trump with a question. following the incident, fields said? a statement:
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the surveillance video showed neither got the incident exactly right. first, here is an audiotape taken at the time of the incident. and so here is the closed circuit video released yesterday by the police. take a look. so you can see lewandowski turn -- following i guess the
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reporter there in yellow and you see him passing by her and that where's the alleged touching took place where she was almost thrown to the ground. lewandowski turned himself in yesterday morning to police and was released. his lawyers insist he is absolutely innocent. >> cokie, doesn't exactly look like chicago 1968. >> no, it doesn't. >> doesn't look like dan rather being roughed up on the floor. >> i was at chicago, 1968. >> we're looking at these tapes like they're the zapruder films and you think about what happened to dan rather and other people -- >> it's nothing like that. on the other hand, nobody should be pulling a reporter away -- >> especially campaign managers. >> and, you know, she is a young woman and it was probably frightening for her, i will give her that. but it was not a major incident. i think we can say that. >> well, hold on. the campaign manager just flat out lied about it. >> well, that's true. >> just flat out lied about it.
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he did grab her, whether you think it was tough or not. he did grab her then took to twitter and said he never met her. that's a lie, a demonstrable lie and it could have been solved if he said "sorry, i didn't realize i touched you that hard." >> that's the thing. >> forget political correctness, i'm with donald trump, we're too politically correct, we're too soft as a country. i'll stipulate that. but he clearly grabbed her. it's not the right thing to do, say you're sorry. does he deserve to be charged? i don't think so. but a simple apology. >> i feel like both sides didn't tell the truth. >> and what donald trump is doing now is despicable, pure victim blaming. i get it, the incident wasn't that radical, right? but to say a pen could have been a bomb is absurd. >> you say it's not that radical, cokie says it's not that much. but if you have been following reporters on twitter you literally would have thought
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that there were police batons and she was beat on the ground. >> does not excuse the victim blaming. >> no, it does not excuse victim blaming. it does point to something they have been saying for some time and that is the press hates donald trump so much that even in a story like this, which deserves covering, even a story like this, there is absolutely no perspective. >> except for breitbart which fired her. they didn't stand by her story so she felt she had to quit and half the people there quit because they refused to stand by the reporters. so at least there was some consequence here. >> big consequence for corey lewandowski. let's go to boynton beach and talk to a florida criminal defense attorney who practices in. >> pierre: office-- jupiter. my question for you is, i'm a member of the florida bar, i
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spent a good bit of time courthouses for four to five years. i'll just ask you this way, are you surprised that charges were filed for the episode that you saw on tape? >> i'm very surprised that they were filed. this is a political event in a political atmosphere and now we are taking it into the criminal realm and charging a crime. it does not seem to fit at all. >> i'm flabbergasted that the state of florida -- i'll just say it. lewandowski should not have touched her. it was an improper touching and i -- how does the state prove that to be a battery? and what jury would convict
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under -- >> i don't know if they'll be able to. they don't know what was going through the mind of corey at the time or the security team at the time. there's huge security issues that come into play when you're dealing with this type of an event and the government can't get into the minds of those people to know what their security concerns were of keeping a reporter away from mr. trump. simple as that. >> but why would that be a security issue? i mean, the truth is a reporter should be able to get close to a candidate without being considered a threat to the candidate. >> well, we don't know if there were certain types of information that were relayed to the security team ahead of this event. it's not by any means the normal type of an event. it was more of a gathering so i don't know what type of concerns were happing. there's been reports that other security members did have certain concerns over certain
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individuals and i don't know what happened there. but that's obviously going to be up to them to divulge. >> i can't imagine this young woman was a security concern. i think she was a reporter. that's what they didn't like. they didn't like a journalist there asking questions they didn't want asked. >> well, i've never known mr. trump not do -- to want to be answering questions. he's been doing a good job answering all those questions and as uyou were previously reporting, being on the air quite a bit an utilizing the press to his advantage. >> so let me ask you. what does the state have to prove or does this seem, again, in your experience as an attorney in south florida, is this a sort of case where people go -- i don't know if it's small claims court or wherever they go and do a plea deal? what happens? what happens when this gets in front of a judge? i'm relying on my five years of
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experience. if i went in front of a judge at least in northwest florida and said this is a battery, we want to take this to trial, the judge would look at me and say "are you kidding? figure this out yourself. apologize and pay a fine." do you really see that going to court? >> i don't know ultimately if it will be going to trial. the courts may take that same tact in looking at it. there needs to be the review by the state attorney's office of the facts to see whether or not they want to continue in the prosecution forthey wish to divert the prosecution some way to bring it outside of the court system and try to reach a resolution. obviously everybody has to come together if there's going to be any form of a resolution met. >> all right, attorney, thank you very much for your insight. steve kornacki, what do you think? >> well, it probably reinforces everything everybody thinks about donald trump in the first place. that's the story of everything
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that seems to happen with him. i can imagine this will only tighten and strengthen the bond his supporters have with him. he seems to be publicly going to bat for, standing up for his guy in this. he's staring down the media. he's staring down the people shouting at him. we've seen this before, that's his recipe. so it probably strengthens that bond at the same time we've seen these polls, especially general election polls when you start getting away from the republican base, you start getting the independence. you see his numbers off the charts bad there right now and i imagine a lot of those people not necessarily looking closely at every frame of that video but they're absorbing the headlines, absorbing the overall tone of the coverage. they've already seen a number of stories about donald trump and women and comments about women, seeing female reporters roughed up, i imagine it will make his bigger picture general election problem probably worse. >> before you go to break here last night at that forum donald
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trump was asked to recall the last time he apologized for something and it was a fascinating answer. [ laughter ] he sat there, he sat there, you should have seen the look on his face, he couldn't think of anything and he finally said he apologized to his mom many years ago when he used foul language. anyone who is waiting for an apology for this incident is going to be waiting in vain. he wasn't going to apologize. as steve said, he'll take care of his guy. corey lewandowski shouldn't touch a reporter, he shouldn't touch anybody else but donald trump is not going to apologize for this. >> i wanted to -- i think steve kornacki nailed it. i agree with him 100%. this does not hurt anymore the primary most likely but this entire episode is devastating in his efforts to bring his negatives down in the general election. it compounds a problem he has with women. a history with women that is negative to say the least and it feeds into that narrative and i think the biggest mistake they
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made from the very beginning was corey lewandowski not picking up the phone, calling michelle fields saying "i didn't know it was you. i didn't know you were with breitbart." >> he should haven't touched anybody. >> i know. but "listen, he has these death threats, it's insane. i'm sorry, please forgive me. we'll give you an exclusive next week." whatever and instead -- >> unwanted touching is a crime in florida. i think that's great. >> yeah. >> it could have been avoided so easily. >> i'm going to withhold, i have a lot of thoughts on this. >> why? >> because we have to go to break. [ laughter ] >> well, it's a three-hour show so you have plenty of time. >> i'm going to be careful and not step in it in the last second and blurt it out.
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still ahead on "morning joe," hillary clinton is up with her first campaign ad in new york and it looks like she's more focused on the general election than the race she's currently in. and we're closer to learning more information about her use of private e-mails as the secretary of state. we'll tell you about the decision from a judge. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. wrely on the us postal service? because when they ship with us,
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geez, we are so lucky to have michael steele here. he's like a national celeb. >> everybody knows him. >> everybody knows michael steel. you're like the dude. you're awesome. >> like the paul mccartney of -- >> where did this come from? [ laughter ] >> look at this clip. this proves how well known michael steele is. roll the tape, please. >> republicans for a thousand. >> in 2009, he became the first african-american chairman of the republican national committee. erin? >> who is priebus? >> no. kent or doug, who is michael steele, the one before priebus. >> what? priebus! >> yeah, i look like a priebus.
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>> priebus? >> hence forward, you had been reince. >> thank you. >> thank you, reince. >> aren't you glad you're not reince today? a second federal judge is opening the door to letting a conservative watchdog group question the state department officials about hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. in a three-page order filed yesterday, u.s. district senior judge royce lamberth granted a request from the group judicial watch to pursue legal discovery. the judge cliebed clint eddescr e-mail arrangement as "extraordinary" and said there have been shifting explanations. clinton maintained she did what was allowed and didn't send or receive information marked "classified." >> cokie roberts, they've now
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angered two federal judges. two, not one. they have angered two federal judges. not a wise move. >> this story won't go away. that's clearly the case and if i were she, i would like to get it all out right now. >> why isn't it going to go away? >> because it keeps plodding its way through the court, it's plodding its way through the congress. >> thisis this media driven? >> to some degree, sure. i remember at one point last fall there had been something like 40 stories about her e-mail in the "washington post" and very little about her policies. >> do you think the story has legs? >> i think it plays into the whole perceptions but of her as untrustworthy. >> you have two, right now, jim vandehei, two federal judges angry, the first was i believe a clinton appointee, angered by the government's conduct. this judge basically calling the
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government out, saying they're acting in bad faith. so the discovery is just going to continue. we found out last week there were 22 e-mails that were so sensitive that the state department said releasing them would cause grave danger to the united states national security. this is -- seems to be ramping up. >> and into the question about whether this is a media story versus a real story, the bigger problem is not just the media, it's the fbi, scores of people at the fbi are clearly dug in on this case and leaking lots of toe material to said reporters and judges making it easier for people to go after the e-mails. hillary clinton is probably right, there's been a disproportionate amount of coverage but most of the times we're talking about hillary on this show or other shows it's almost always about the e-mail scandal which goes to the heart of hillary clinton's problem which is most people think she is dishonest and we have not paid that much attention to that because we're talking about the
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unfavorable ratings of donald trump. but in all likelihood, you'll head into the general election with two candidates who a majority of americans think are dishonest. that says something about our politics. i think it says something about how nasty the campaign will be and i think as nasty as it's been now and we chuckle about it, it will be 100 times worse in the general election. can you imagine what donald trump -- >> he's been saying over the last few days i haven't even started in on hillary yet. >> but for donald trump, mika -- but for donald trump who has disapproval numbers in the 60s, we would all be talking about a democratic nominee with disapproval ratings in the mid-50s. this is extraordinary. >> what i took out of that story, a big story about the fbi and all of that, is that 147 fbi agents are focused on this? don't they have other problems? >> they downsized that number. it's only 50. >> now it's closer to 50. >> only, yes.
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>> there's no crime in the country they should be worrying about? >> as a reporter, to have 50 sources -- >> so hillary clinton has decided to take on donald trump. her campaign is unveiling its first ad in new york ahead of that state's primary in april 19. the spot takes dead aim at trump. take a look. >> new york, 20 million people strong. no, we don't all look the same, doe don't all sound the same, either. but when we pull together we do the biggest things in the world. so when some say we can solve america's problems by building walls, banning people based on their religion and turning against each other, well, this is new york and we know better. >> what do you think? >> i think it's a great ad. >> it's a very good ad. >> that's hillary clinton's best ad and if if i were hillary
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clinton i would never mention bernie sanders' name again. i don't know why she does. >> isn't that the mistake we've all made? >> let bernie sanders attack and say whatever, let's talk about the real danger here and talk about donald trump. that's a great ad. >> a lot of democrats want to know who will take on donald trump and how they'll do it. i think this positions her as the person they can put their hopes on to. in that sense it's a good ad, i don't think it's the smartest thing to completely ignore bernie. >> we've all made that mistake. >> i'm not saying that bernie can't catch her. there's that possibility. i think make bernie constantly attack her and she's going after donald trump, pretty soon the democrats start saying a second, why is he attacking her -- >> they've already started saying that. >> -- when we have donald trump to worry about. that's about as good of an ad -- >> sanders cannot catch her.
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>> he can not catch her. >> the super delegates. >> short of an indictment. >> unless the super delegates shift. >> right. but i don't see them shifting at this point. there's too much flashback to 2008 when they did that and i think if nothing else hillary clinton's team is holding those super delegates. >> the super delegates are democratic party insiders. sanders hasn't fund raised for the democratic party. >> there's no incentive for them to shift. >> i guess you'd have to say something extraordinary would have to occur for them -- >> those 50 fbi agents. >> the whole point of super delegates, the reason they put them in in the first place was to prevent having a candidate who couldn't win the general election win the nomination. >> i don't like the concept of super delegates but i know
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republicans wish they had super delegates right now. coming up, the former top military intelligence official who says the white house ignored warnings about isis to bolster the president's reelection hopes. retired lieutenant general michael flynn breaks down the administration's current approach to tackling the terror group and what advice he's been giving to donald trump. "morning joe" is back in a moment. and i didn't get here alone. there were people who listened along the way. people who gave me options. kept me on track. and through it all, my retirement never got left behind. so today, i'm prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. every someday needs a plan. let's talk about your old 401(k) today. ♪ [engine revs] ♪
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show show me more like this.ns. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what blows you away. call or go onliand switch to x1. only with xfinity. coming up, a huge night of politics here on msnbc.
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john kasich, donald trump, hillary clinton and bernie sanders -- >> oh, my gosh! >> -- will all be sitting down for individual town halls and interviews. >> it's like "night of a thousand stars." >> it is. it kicks off at 7:00 eastern tonight. >> nobody is old enough to remember that. >> clinton is the master of sash mo -- ceremonies and bernie sanders -- >> wrestles a bear. >> tomorrow governor kasich will be our guest on "morning joe." we'll be right back. i drive a golf ball.
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he came out with a team of advisors, general mike flynn you i assume worked with at gaa, then a couple of other people, then in an interview with the "new york times" he said he hasn't met with them, he has talked to them on the phone. >> no commentary on the group, but that's a fairly small group of folks and the idea is that he's talked with them on the
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phone, he hasn't huddled up, he hasn't thought through positions. >> that was former cia director michael hayden who joined us yesterday. joining us now, retired u.s. army lieutenant general michael flynn who headed the pentagon's defense intelligence agency and is rumored to be a foreign policy advisor to donald trump. let's confirm. good to have you on the show. >> hi, mika, joe. >> rumor true or false? are you advising donald trump? >> i advise a couple of the candidates. so that's what i do. i advise a couple of candidates that have asked me for foreign policy, national security and issues about things going on around the world. >> is trump one of them? >> trump is one of them. i've met with him and provided by him answers to questions that he's asked. >> all right, we're going to ask you some questions now. >> sure. >> isis, how badly did we miss the rise of isis? >> really badly. and i think that one of the things that we have to face up to is just how difficult it is
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going to be to do what i think the president has asked frankly the military and the nation to do which is -- i think i would call the strategy kind of a minimalist strategy focused on iraq and syria and it's much, much worse than that. and we've seen this really start to unfold even from the planning that was done for the decisions to leave forces in iraq in 2011 and i think that we saw that, we made some assumptions about that and in many cases those assumptions are playing out in spades. >> general, how could we have been so wrong going into iraq in 2003 and so wrong getting out of iraq the way we did in 2011 and, again, misjudging what would rise in that vacuum? >> so the decisions of the past were -- i mean, there's some incredibly strategically wrong decisions that were made. i mean, i'm not going to sit
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here and tell you that the decision to go into iraq was a good idea, obviously it was not. and it has caused a whole bunch of things. but then once we essentially had a victory in iraq, we did not sustain that victory going forward. so we have this problem that has been exacerbated by, frankly, not sustaining the victory we achieved. >> how did we miss isis coming? >> i don't think we missed it. i think what we didn't want to see was we didn't want to see that al qaeda in iraq was going to morph into something actually worse. you know, al qaeda 2.0, 4.0, 6.0. whatever you want to call it. so this islamic state that has declared this caliphate, the caliphate is not just in raqqah or mosul. it's -- it exists at least in the ideological mind of this enemy in a lot more places than that. and when we see this thing
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playing out in europe, when we see it playing out in pakistan recently, when we see it playing out in parts of africa and, frankly, right here in this country, that is where it exists. that's where that caliphate exists and i don't think a lot of people understand that. >> willie geist is in new york and has a question. >> general flynn, good to see you this morning. >> hi, willie. >> the cruz campaign has confirmed you've spoken to them from tomb from time to time as well. given that you've spoken to both him and mr. trump, who do you think would be a better commander-in-chief? >> i think either of them would be fine. my role and what i believe is that we have to take a really deep look at the way the world is unfolding, the reality that we face. and i think we spend too much time beating each other over the head about the poor decisions that have been made, frankly, over the last 16 years. so when we start to think about going forward, we have an
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incredible global economic problem and it's from a whole framework of things that we just haven't paid attention to. i mean, just look at the last 30, 45 minutes of what you've focused on. the guy's a potential front-runner and potentially the president of the united states, but we have incredible global problems that directly relate to the national security of this country and, you know, i could spend an hour talking to you about them but i won't. >> can we talk about one of the policies that both donald trump and ted cruz are advocating? the ban on muslims entering this country for an undefined period of time. how is that strategically, morally, constitutionally smart? >> so, again, you know, be very specific. and what i would ask all of you to do is be very specific about exact words that were chosen by anybody that's talking about immigrants because immigration is a national security issue.
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so i think part of what we have to do is we do have to recognize that from select -- from select countries that some of these people are coming from -- i mean, so what do we know? we know that the islamic state has decided and has the intention to infiltrate the immigrants that are pouring into europe and the potential that some of that will come into this country. so we know that. so we know for a fact that they have said we are going to infiltrate into these immigration populations. so knowing that, what we have to be really, really precise about is the individuals that are coming from select areas of the word, we have to be much better at how we vet them in order to bring the right kinds of people in. i mean, i'm a product of immigration, we all are at some point so be precise because i think that does a disservice to the media. >> let's go back to willie geist who has a follow-up. >> i want to come back to my original question because i think it's important.
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you're one of the few people who's talked to both of these guys and you're respected in your field. >> thank you. >> is one or two views of the world -- either donald trump's or ted cruz's -- more pim pressive to you and the policy prescriptions they have to approach them. which is more impressive? >> i think both have a very broad global view. i would sit here -- i'm not going to sit here and tell you i agree with everything they say and where i'm at with the -- with what we're trying to do is my role and, frankly, for my entire life, certainly for my entire adult life it's been about what's best for this country. and so when we go forward and we start to look at people who are looking for what i believe is good advice, i think i provide good advice, i provide certainly candid -- my best, honest expert judgment on certain things: you know, appreciate the fact that they have asked, has either one of them impressed you more than
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the other? >> i'm sorry? >> has either of the candidates impressed you more than the other on foreign policy? >> i think they're both worthy individuals who would make great presidents, either or at this stage. i think the people of this country have to decide. i do believe that this particular presidential election -- i've done a little bit of history on other presidents, but i think that this particular one, the people of this country are looking for leadership in a really complex crazy world. >> all right. general michael flynn, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. we'll be right back. an orc-o-gm for an "owen." that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school
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still ahead, pledge? what pledge? the republican presidential contenders are now backing away from their promise to support the party's eventual nominee. plus, new reaction to the battery charge against donald trump's campaign manager. will it hurt the front-runner's campaign now? later? at all. the "washington post's" bob woodward is next. "morning joe" is coming back in a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪ for your retirement, you want to celebrate the little things, because they're big to you. and that is why you invest.
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[ laughter ] welcome back to "morning joe." we're in washington hearing good war stories about being reporters in a scrum of journalists and campaign managers. >> in' 68 you were at the convention? >> i was at the convention in '68, i was pregnant with my first child and basically used my stomach as a weapon. [ laughter ] >> while other people were getting beaten up on the floor, right? >> we have that. with us we have white house correspondent for the huffington post sam stein, msnbc -- >> look at sam. he's so serious. >> he's mad at me. >> i wasn't at the '68 convention. >> hell, you weren't alive in '78. >> i wasn't. >> michael steele is here, you know who he is, we'll move on. >> reince. >> cokie roberts. and joining the conversation pulitzer prize winning associate editor of the "washington post" bob woodward is with us.
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>> nothing going on, bob. >> we'll start with -- you want to say what's going on? what's our headline? >> interesting, i think part of the perspective we don't have is how trump's standing by his campaign manager who goes down with real people who have been snubbed, been pushed under the bus by -- >> i get. >> bosses, supervisors, siblings, spouses and so when trump says "look, i stick with my guy" that resonates i suspect with millions of people. if you go back 34 years with nixon when he threw his top aides, haldeman and erlichman off the bus and said "oh, they're two of the finest public servants i've ever known but they have to go," that's the washington way. you get rid of people. and what trump is saying,
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"uh-uh, i'm not playing that game." and i suspect lots of people like it. >> i'm so glad you said that. that was one of my thoughts and i wasn't sure if it was going to get misunderstood but i do think this is going to play well. i do. >> well, it's the everyman theme that's been resonant with him from the very beginning. that blue-collar working mom in new hampshire who says he's one of us and who can identify being in that situation where they've been thrown under the bus and having their employer, their spouse or whatever stand with them matters. >> and i think part of the mistake is to think it's the blue-collar workers. i asked how many are for trump and it was four walking out and three came up and said "i'm not going to raise my and in that group and say i'm for trump."
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>> there are two parts of it. the sheer volume of hatred for donald trump, i want to go back to what steve kornacki said last hour. yes, there will be some people that like the fact that trump is standing next to his guy. but we have been talking about donald trump's problems with hispanics. add to that donald trump's problem with women. if you're looking at the primary, this is going -- this will not hurt donald trump most likely in the primary. it might hurt him in wisconsin but not the later states but, sam stein, you look at donald trump's growing problem with women -- >> 74% unfavorable. >> 74% unfavorable. this feeds into a narrative that could be absolutely crushing to donald trump. even more crushing in the fall than his problem with hispanics and that's pretty bad right now.
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>> you might have noticed me biting my lip because for every person who might empathize with corey and say "good for donald trump for standing by his guy not throwing him under the bus," there's going to be a woman out there who's been subjected to some form of assault and been victim blamed who says this is repulsive and that that campaign manager blatantly and demonstrably lied about it and that trump by refusing to distance himself from someone caught in a lie, regardless of how much damage corey caused to michelle field's arms is abetting it and i think people will be deeply turned off by that as much as they might be empathetic that he stands by him. >> this is the division. that's exactly true. the question is -- and joe was making this point, i was listening earlier -- if the campaign manager, corey, had apologized, had just -- >> two seconds in. >> you know, this thing ends with an apology and her saying "okay, i'm not going to continue with the charges."
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and the general here was so right, general flynn when he was saying we're talking about this when we've got a world out there that has 900 ticking time bombs. >> but i don't think this is insignificant as a story. i think it gets at bigger issues we need to confront. it's not one instance of a campaign manager maybe or maybe not assaulting a reporter, it's about how we treat the prison, how women are treated by men and how they feel like they can stand up and say something. >> cokie roberts, what are your thoughts? we were going to go to the news but sam stein says this is the most important news of the day. >> i didn't say that. >> you have dealt -- you have been a reporter for many, many years, what's your take? >> i agree with sam. the way the press is treated often by many candidates, frankly, and kept separate, all of those things, is not the way
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it should be. and certainly having somebody roughed up to any degree is reprehensible. but i also do think that an apology would have solved it. >> mika? >> i definitely think an apology would have solved it. i think that there is a hyper focus and that focus as there should be on what appears to be a lie coming out of the box about whether or not corey touched her or not or inappropriately or not but i think nobody's looking at -- >> but touching her is inappropriate. >> i'm saying i totally agree with you. and i think there was a lie out of the box out of. and you are now asking me to say it three times, and that's my point. nobody's actually looking at what came out of the box, out of the reporter''s mouth. sam, can you tell me what she said upon this battery happening to her?
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alleged battery? >> i get it. >> no, you don't. you don't get it. nobody gets it, sam, because we haven't heard it, sam. because there is, again, such a hyper focus. we are now eight minutes into this and i guarantee you wasting eight minutes, now almost nine minutes on this, people will still say that we have insufficiently obsessed on this touching. which, let me say again, was inappropriate and should have never happened. but we were going to go to news four minutes ago but you and the rest of the twitter sphere think this is the most important story of the universe, sam, so please, tell us what she said immediately after this broke. what happened? >> just the story, please. just the story. >> what did she say happen? >> i feel like i'm on the stand here. >> because you can't help yourself. >> what are you talking about? out of the box she said she had been grabbed and pulled almost toi regained
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balance. >> yanked violently. >> i don't disagree with your assessment. i think that statement probably overstated it. definitely overstated it. >> why? >> because it looks according to the video that she wasn't yanked towards the ground and it doesn't look like the most violent thing in the world. however, i've been very consistent on this. if she felt she was violated she has the right to be heard. >> absolutely. >> if the campaign manager said he never knew her, never touched her and the video comes out showing that's demonstrably untrue, that's a flat out lie. >> agreed. >> and we all agree this was so avoidable on so many levels: >> we've said that a hundred times. so what are we debating? >> you're the one that wants to keep talking about it. let's go to the debate last night because we've now wasted ten and a half minutes on this and i'm sure that still won't be enough. the bigger point is -- >> i hope the court system spent a lot of time on it. it's important. >> you only heard in the past
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week and a half a singular manic focus. people continue ding to compare donald trump to hitler, people suggesting he has brown shirts around him, people doing the sort of thing to donald trump that republicans did to barack obama which drove me crazy. barack obama would name a post office and a republican congressman would go to the house floor "mr. speaker, tonight freedom has died." [ laughter ] and then the next day they would name it "national cherry blossom picking week." and somebody would go "mr. speaker, the president of the united states is once again showing he has no respect for the constitution. freedom has died." [ laughter ] the hyperbole coming from republicans has been as maddening as the hyperbole from democrats while george w. bush is at -- and with donald trump there is no straight reporting.
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there is hyperbole. and here's the thing, okay? you can say what the huffington post says at the end, he's a misogynist, racist, bigot, fine. but give us the news. give us perspective because nobody is doing it right now. and the fact that this has been an issue for 12 minutes now is absolute madness. can we go to the debate. it appears all three republican candidates are now backing away from their initial pledge of support to the party's eventual nominee. here they all are in a town hall last night. >> essentially you're saying it's in the balance, you're waiting to see? >> well, i would say that that would be a good way to describe it. i have to see what happens. if the nominee is somebody that i think is hurting the country and dividing the country, i can't stand behind them. we have a ways to go. let's see how this folds out. >> is it fair to say that you believe donald trump looks like he would harm the country if he
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was the nominee? >> that will be up to the voters. >> i'm not in the habit of supporting someone who attacks my family. >> if donald trump is the gop nominee, would you support him? >> let me tell you my solution to that -- [ laughter ] donald is not going to be the gop nominee. >> so you would not support him? >> i gave you my answer. i think nominating donald trump would be an absolute train wreck. >> when i was pressing senator cruz, he was saying -- >> he doesn't have to support me. i'm not asking for his support. >> do you continue to say you'll support the republican nominee? >> i won't say that anymore.
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>> you won't support the republican nominee? >> he was saying the same thing. he doesn't have to support me. i have tremendous support right now from the people. >> so let's go to the most famous man on earth, reince probe-is. [ laughter ] >> one more thing about corey. [ laughter ] >> michael steele? >> donald trump straight out of the box said i don't need his support, don't want his support. when you cannot answer the question directly whether or not you're going to support the nominee of the party, it's a straight up yes or no. >> talking about cruz and kasich? >> talking about cruz or kasich. just say no you're not and the american people appreciate it and we move on. just like we move on from this other stuff. >> why do you think they won't say no? >> because they're scared. they don't know how to parse it. they don't know what it means. they don't know how people will react. >> and cokie roberts, donald trump -- the people have taken over their party. i'm saying ted cruz and john kasich are now members of a party where there are more
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populists/conservatives than they are conservatives/populists. >> well, yes and no. i mean the trump vote is still under a majority vote. so you -- they haven't completely -- >> 48% as of this week. >> so they haven't taken over the party. >> you don't want to upset 48% of your electorate. that's your base going into a general election. >> and those people have made it clear they are upset with the republican leadership and so to try to walk this balancing act between the party leadership and the voters is a tough one. >> bob woodward, one thing that is striking in those answers and take out who's delivering the answers, you see with donald trump something extraordinary. you see a guy that doesn't care if any elected official endorses
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him because he has "the people," a large segment of the republican electorate behind him. he doesn't need anybody. i have not seen this that. >> put yourself the place of somebody who the blue-collar worker or the average person who has -- and they look at that and say, ah, that's the hedging mind-set of washington in politicians, they won't give us a straight answer and trump gets right up there and he says i don't need this support. that is a straight answer and i've always thought that when you look at people running for president the issue of straight talk is many times number one and straight talk really matters and as sam is pointing out sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. but i think it's very effective and people look at that and it
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is a political message we've not heard for a long time. >> very quick. if that's the combination that's been the difference maker in this campaign, you look at where he's standing on corey. when you look at his answer to whether or not hints to support of his fellow candidates, he is just coming at it the real way, the honest way. you may not like that answer, you may not like the fact he's standing by corey, you may not like the fact he won't support the eventual nominee but the reality is, for folks out there you put it just right, this hedging, this second guessing, checking the pulse to see if i people in the right spot at the right time is what people are sick and tired of. >> and political correctness. political correctness. when he attacks political correctness he gets a tremendous response. >> john kasich gave an answer as to what he would do if the situation was within his campaign and i think he said "i think i'd put the person on leave." and either you know your people or you don't. either you know your people or
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you don't. >> let's be very clear here, though. if this had happened in any other political campaign, if this had happened in any city hall across america. if this had happened at any corporation in america. if this had happened in any significant institution in the military the person would be put on leave until the charges were -- >> i thought you were talking about the republican party. >> that's what michael brought up. people like that -- they like that. >> i'm just saying the smart move would have been to immediately put him on leave. >> you used the word, to distance yourself from the offender whereas donald trump is like "this is my guy, he's gotten me here, i'm going to ride this out with him and until you show me otherwise --" >> that's what i'm saying i think works. >> that's what works. >> it's a misdemeanor charge in
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this case. let's go to the guy who drives a grocery struck around for a living and gets two speeding tickets, maybe three speeding tickets and the boss calls him in and says "you're finished, i have to put distance between myself and you, you're gone." >> yeah? >> and there are so many instances in people's real lives where somebody is backed out on them and they see someone coming in and saying uh-uh, not me, i'm not backing out, this is a misdemeanor, this is a mistake. as mika was saying, if you were that reporter, would you file charges? >> i would have probably gotten several exclusive interviews and would have been there when the baby was born. [ laughter ] >> guys, we have to go to break. >> no, hold on a second. i just want to say there is something happening in this country where a lot of people -- and i'm going to bring up a
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topic which is going to make you roll your eyes but it's the best glaring example. stop and frisk and the lines of people around the courthouses sitting there, their lives derailed and thrown off because, you know, nobody backs them and there's -- >> that's actually -- >> and there's total inequality in this country about who gets pulled in and completely derailed and who doesn't. >> what does that have to do with this? >> it works for donald trump, what he's doing. i know it doesn't make sense to you. >> it's the stand by me moment. >> it's the stand by me moment. >> cue the music. still ahead on "morning joe," he was let go for ted cruz's campaign. what does he make of donald trump standing by his staffer despite allegations of battery. plus, mark leibovich has a problem with the tone of this campaign. actually, he's got a problem with the word "tone" itself. mark will explain why he's wrestling that four-letter word next on "morning joe." eing stol.
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>> let me ask you about governor scott walker. today he endorsed ted cruz, he says cruz is the common sense conservative and suggested your
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brand of politics would not work in wisconsin. >> well, he stole the word "common sense conservative" with me. he never used that term in his life. look, i beat him very badly. he was a favorite in the presidential run. i knew he couldn't endorse me. i never asked for an endorsement so obviously i would have loved to have gotten his support but i didn't expect it and i don't think it will mean anything. >> that was donald trump reacting to wisconsin governor scott walker's endorsement of ted cruz yesterday. walker dismissed the idea that he was simply opposing donald trump saying "i'm supporting someone. not against something or someone." joining us from madison, wisconsin, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. hallie, do people expect this endorsement to move the needle? >> it may. you look at scott walker's approval rating in wisconsin, it hovers around 40% but he does have some sway with those tea partiers in the state and some
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conservatives around milwaukees, these really red counties like waukesha counties. he could have an impact with people on the fence about ted cruz. remember this endorsement was not like what we saw from mitt romney. this was full throated, walker coming out 100% saying i support ted cruz because of his conservative credentials. it wasn't like romney who said, hey, let's support ted cruz so we can force a contested convention. this was a full backing of cruz. a campaign aide says we should see walker on the campaign trail at the end of this week so he will be an active presence in wisconsin. the other part is how it undercutting john kasich's argument that he is the best anti-trump candidate. ted cruz is saying "i have the best shot to take down donald trump." >> nbc's hallie jackson, thank you very much. despite suspending his
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presidential campaign, senator marco rubio is trying to keep ahold of the 172 delegates he won this year. marco rubio told msnbc that he sent a letter asking he be allowed to keep his delegates. the letter sent to the chair of the alaska republican party reads in part this: untied states? he probably meant united states. the alaska republican party agreed to let rubio keep the five delegates he won in that state. a spokesman for the senator tells msnbc rubio wants to "give
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vote yaers chance to stop trump." >> with us now in new york we have msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber who has been following the delegate story. we're also joined by attorney and republican strategist ben ginsberg and from the "new york times" magazine mark leibovich. ari, tell us what marco is trying to do with his delegates. >> this is an unusual one. basically, joe, he's been telling state party chairs in all those states where he won delegates that he wants to hold on to these delegates. it's not that simple. indeed, usually when people suspend their campaign they're sort of out of that game. he's trying to do two things at once. i want to be clear. he is not running for president anymore. in this article i have that up at nbcnews.com reporting on this and what you just quoted from, he also is removing his name from the california ballot which requires a signed avid. so we're not saying in any way that marco rubio is still actively running for the
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presidential nomination. what he's doing, that rubio aide confirmed to me, is trying to help stop trump. when you look at the big map, something ben ginsberg knows a lot about and we've talked about, typically the count right now would be in the low 300s of delegates potentially up for grabs. indeed, i've spoken to officials with the trump campaign who said those are 300 plus delegates they could get even if they're short of the magic 1237 majority. what this means is -- and we'll see what happens -- the rubio folks are trying to cut into that number. indeed, if they could try to get ahold of a good portion of those 170 delegates, that would cut those up for grabs down to just about 150. >> all right. ari melber, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate your insights. let's go to the man called the yoda of republican rules. [ laughter ] . please don't speak in yoda talk. i don't know if anybody actually called you that. i just did. ben, you heard what ari said.
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marco was asking people to allow the delegates to stick to him, that's unusual, isn't it? >> it's going to work in some states and not in others depending upon what the analysis of those particular state rules are. it's potentially important if donald trump comes up short of the 1237 and what marco rubio's move is going to do is set up any number of credentials fights just to make the convention more uneasy. >> what's happened with this convention? where are we headed? >> no guns. >> no guns. thank gold. >> -- that's a big plus. we don't know where we're headed until we know how many votes donald trump -- >> how much power does the republican party have to stop trump if he gets 1236? >> well, i'm not sure who you know -- i don't think you can define what the republican party is at this point. what's interesting about it is you have individual delegates being selected by their states
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right now and that group of individuals will come together as a collective mass to make those decisions. if he's at 1236 very little, if he's less, there's any number of procedural things. >> the famous that ben has educated us all about, the famous rule 40. >> that i love. [ laughter ] >> interesting moment. >> you have to win the majority of delegates in eight states. >> that is correct. >> no one has done that. >> well, that was the rule for 2012. the 2016 convention, this group of individual delegates not yet selected are the ones who will decide if it's eight states, four state, one state. >> mika, let's go to the yoda of profile pieces. >> you wrote this in your latest piece, mark leibovich, for the "new york times" magazine and in part you say this:
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>> so 345rk mark, enter the fray. what are the dark forces? >> i think it's all written in rule 40. [ laughter ] if you ask ben -- >> ben would know. >> the yoda knows.
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we should have a town meeting on rule 40. >> i think so. >> good ratings. >> i am sick of everyone bemoaning the tone. my inspiration for this story was a couple days ago when bernie sanders wanted to debate hillary clinton in new york and joel bennenson went after tone. he said "we'll have to see what your tone is." >> because he's attacking her. >> i don't know -- well, he was -- yes he felt very aggrieved by this. he basically put the sanders campaign on tone probation. it's one of the many words, pivot is another one, i wrote about that last week, that tells you nothing about the substance of the race, the race itself or the dynamics driving it. >> it removes people who are real voters from what's going on. rule 40, tone, they wanted -- hey, i'm dealing with a screaming bill collector on the phone telling me i better pay up or x and y are going to happen. and that's why -- we get into
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all of these discussions and i think it takes people further away from this kind of washington way of looking at things. >> so, mark, the dark forces. >> the dark forces. >> what are the dark forces? >> well, we talk -- the graveyard words, we've talked about anger and frustration. i normally think there's a great deal of economic fear, a fear of immigrants, there's a nativist strain in this debate. in the democratic party there's some virulent anti-clintonism. these are harder to name rather than going after tone. you can dwell instead on tone. >> i think, though, that people have been upset about the tone. you do have a lot of polling that shows that, that people are uncomfortable with the way that this campaign is being conducted. >> yes, but that's been true for months now. we were just talking about the good old days back when they were attacking each other's wives.
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i mean -- or when marco rubio and trump were going back and forth about -- >> hand size. okay. >> let me ask you, ben ginsberg, when is your romance novel on rule 40 coming out? is that this fall? >> absolutely. well, this fall will be too soon, it will be a quickie novel. >> rule 40. a love story. >> when you see the fight at the convention on it, that will be the first big huge fight. >> passion play. >> the tone in the convention come together in the whole notion of who will fix it. your point about if somebody's at 1236, what can the establishment do? nobody can fix that and nobody can fix the tone of this campaign. it goes to why there are no brokers left in the republican party trying to define the establishment. to bob's point really of nobody's talking about what people want to hear. >> speaking of copouts, you talk about the "dark forces" that are driving this campaign right now? it's very easy to look at a candidate and say it's all his
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fault. >> it's not. >> you dig underneath that candidate and you start looking state by state by state by state and see a majority of republican voters in states want to ban muslims from entering the united states of america -- >> two-thirds. >> forget about tone, forget about individual candidates, start looking at the larger issue. the larger problem. and the fact is right now there are, as you say, dark forces that can't be explained away by "he's a bad guy, that's a bad commercial." >> any time a campaign like in donald trump's case has as much support as it does you can't just point a finger at the candidate. >> ben ginsberg, thank you so much. "rule 40, a love story." mark leibovich, thank you very much as well. tomorrow "morning joe" will be joined by republican presidential candidate john kasich. much more "morning joe" is straight ahead. if you're going to make a statement... make sure it's an intelligent one.
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all right, moments ago donald trump appeared on "today" and here's a portion of his exchange with matt lauer. >> right after this incident corey lewandowski tweeted that he was called bull blank on misfields and that she was delusional and he never touched her. the videotape easily and plainly shows that, in fact, he did grab her and did pull her and whether
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you want to debate whether she almost fell down or not, he didn't tell the truth. if you're president of the united states and a member of your staff, your chief of staff, goes to the american people and publicly doesn't tell the truth in the way that corey lewandowski hasn't told the truth, would you put up with it? >> i don't know if it wasn't that. i'll be honest with you, when you look at what happened it was so minor that he might not have even thought about it because to be honest with you, when you look at this, it was so why more to, people are calling saying what is this all about? we have people in the middle east chopping off heads and drowning people in cages and he brushes her and he brushed her to get probably -- probably to get her hand off my arm. so it was so minor he may not have realized it took place and then he was informed it took place and he might have not known even frankly what happened. >> cokie, what's your reaction to that? >> well, i think you just heard
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it, chopping off heads and drowning people in cages, to res serious things and donald trump knows to go directly to that and deflect from this other things which still a very, we've said earlier, reprehensible act but not one that most people will think is terribly serious. >> well, the other thing is it's a high security environment and when you -- it's been 20 years since i followed presidential candidates and that was bob dole and that was not like donald trump and every time i watch it on television i just hold my breath because you know things can happen and i think that is the environment in which people are -- but cokie's right. it doesn't forgive it. what it does is it explains it and what is this about?
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this is about a mistake somebody made and should probably come up and just say you know what? follow what trump has said, you know, this is what happened, i'm sorry and it goes away. no? you don't -- >> no, no, i agree with you. >> i will -- >> your face doesn't, know. >> mika's face is -- cokie, you just said something, that the chattering classes and everybody inside the echo chamber in washington and new york and on twitter have been looking at this frame by frame by frame by frame to prove that donald trump is hitler and corey lewandowski is a brown shirt and if that makes them feel better, they can do that. but if they believe despite -- let me go ahead and say it -- despite the fact a campaign manager should have never done this, ever, ever, ever, ever
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should have done that, but if they think that voters in youngstown, ohio are going to look at that tape and say, yes, that proves donald trump is hitler and proves that corey lewandowski should be thrown in jail, then they do not know -- they do not know the voters they try to cover. >> during the anita hill situation i did a story where -- because the polling was showing that women who were working women of modest means, pink collar, blue-collar, were not supporting hill. and when i went to do the story about it and we had stringers around the country doing the reporting, the answer basically was, well, yes, they believed her, that was the wrong question. they just didn't think it was a big deal because they were harassed all the time and in fact someone of them, a waitress, was being harassed during the interview. >> right.
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>> and they were sexually assaulted at work many of these women. so their framework of what was important was very different and so i think you're seeing something -- you're likely to see something similar here. >> that was really well said. it's very -- this is like a major pothole to discuss. you can fall into one very, very quickly because obviously something happened. that's clear. >> that should not have happened. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump has been turning a lot of heads with his kmint comments on the future of nato. hillary clinton and ted cruz found themselves in rare agreement while attacking trump while trump got support from unlikely places. later today, joe and i will discuss all of this with the atlantic council. >> with the president of poland. >> but we'll get a preview to that conversation started right here. nato expert and senior fellow at the atlantic council, ian brzezinski -- i know him --
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nato is obsolete. it was 67 years, over 60 years old. it is -- many countries, doesn't cover terrorism, it covers the soviet union which is no longer in existence. and nato has to either be rejiggered, changed, for the bette better. >> donald trump says nato is obsolete. is it? >> of course it's not. that's absurd. >> with us now, resident senior fellow at the brent scowcroft of the international security and nato expert ian brzezinski. sam stein, you found interesting quote from bob gates about nato. >> i was looking at the history of our relationship with nato. in 2011 bob gates leaving the department of defense was blunt in his criticism. >> what did he say? that was a long windup?
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>> sorry. the american public has dwindling appetite and patience to spend increasingly precious funds of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources to be serious and capable partners in their own defense. very similar to echoing what trump is saying. >> trump/gates 2016. right, ian? so so there has been skepticism not only from donald trump but bob gates and a lot of americans tired of the united states pulling the weight of the world disproportionately. what do you say to them? >> i think it's true that much can be done to improve burden-sharing in at alliance but it's a complete falsehood to say it's obsolete. look at the benefits nato brings. >> what's the most important thing it does? >> it's a force multiplier. nato provides mechanism by which we forge democracies. look at afghanistan. at the height of the operation, we had 130,000 troops in afghanistan. by "we" i mean the alliance. the united states had 90,000.
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the europeans had roughly 40,000. when you think about a military operation, for every unit you have in the field, you have one that's resting, one that's training up so 40,000 europeans roughly 40,000. when you think of the military operation, for everyone in the field, one is resting and one is training up. 40 thousand europeans translates to 140,000 european troops. >> well, in nato served great function. i mean, it helped scare gorbachev. in the disillusion. >> get more from them. supporter of democracy.
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we have a country in europe that is wobbly on the question of democracy, being a part of nato makes an enormous difference. you know, the reason putin doesn't want other countries joining nato, because he still sees it as a threat. >> look where we would be today if we didn't have nato. one, we'd be carrying the burden of afghanistan all ourselves. two, do we think putin if we hadn't enlarged nato if we didn't have it enlarged? >> this is the devil's advocate. isn't the flip side we have more of an umbrella defense. we have to be drawn into conflict by the nato charter. that makes us a little over extended. >> four countries, i saw a recent poll, alex burns tweeted out a story that showed something like 65% of people from nato countries say they do not feel the responsibility to defend another nato country that is attacked.
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>> that is a down side. >> it is a down side, but in the same poll, they say, oh, the united states will do it for us. how do we get more of a buy in from our nato allies? >> you have to have stronger american leadership. one of the things that has contributed to a decline in european commitment of an alliance has been a decline in european commitment. >> i can't believe she agrees with me. >> speaking of bruises. we'll talk about our upbringing. >> no. >> this is going to be fascinating today with president duda of poland. great conversation. >> yeah. it should be a fascinating conversation. and poland, we're going to be interviewing the president of pole land. poland, for americans that don't know, has actually become over time one of our best allies. they're one of the only nato countries that are contributing 2% of their gdp to military causes and they appear to be one
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country that stands by the united states side regardless. >> yeah, they have been steadfast allies. when the united states invaded iraq, the poles were with us, the poles and the u.k. they've been robust in the operations in afghanistan. they've demonstrated a readiness and willingness to stand with the united states outside of europe in return for the u.s. commitment. ian brzezinski, thank you, with the atlantic council. still ahead, susan saran din is making a lot of news with her blistering critique of hillary clinton. louis caught up with -- >> she might support donald trump before hillary. to talk about her vocal support of bernie sanders and he takes a look at the role of celebrity endorsements in politics. that's ahead on "morning joe." i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands
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okay. up next, there was a time when the republican presidential candidates all pledged to support the eventual nominee. that's how it's done in politics, right? >> no, not anymore. those days are gone. >> that's the good old days. plus, we'll go live to jupiter, florida. where donald trump is urging his campaign manager to fight the battery charge involved with a reporter. "morning joe" is back in a moment. you. don't you dare change the rules. don't you dare play with your food. don't you dare get any big ideas. ignore what people say you can't do. don't you dare take that apart. don't you dare stay up all night on the computer. don't you dare raise your voice. ♪
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they're going destroy a man's life? >> good morning, it is wednesday, march 30th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on the set we have senior political editor for the "huffington post", sam stein. >> hello. >> president and ceo poe lilitp jim vandehein.
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kokie roberts and in new york willie geist along with msnbc anchor steve kornacki. >> great group exactly. >> a lot to get through. >> willie geist not a whole lot to talk to other than of course the arrest of a campaign manager for the front-runner. a federal judge saying that more discovery can be up and up in hillary clinton's e-mail investigati investigation. again, three republican candidates all saying they would never support each other in a zillion years and, holy cow, is it april yet? >> churning up. >> the dog days of march, my man. dog days of march. >> you know, as of today, joe, we're officially one year and one week into this presidential campaign. ted cruz announced march 23rd of last year and we've still got how many months to go? a long road ahead of us. >> 800. >> last night at the cnn town hall all three candidates said,
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you know what, that pledge we all signed back in the fall, forget it, it's out the window. also, donald trump last night talking about the three most important roles of the federal government included health care and education. that coming from a republican presidential candidate. this place is up for grabs. >> fascinating. >> you know, willie, that is fascinating. also, being critical of scott walker. >> yeah. >> for not raising taxes. >> that's right. >> and for cutting education and cutting taxes when he should have raised taxes, which goes to what conservatives have been saying and what mika and i have been saying for some time. donald trump is not only not a conservative, i mean, he's not really a mainstream republican. this is a guy who's been at least a moderate democrat his entire life and is completely reshaping the ideological boundaries of the republican party. >> and he did it again last night on the question of abortion, too. he said, look, i like to change my mind sometimes. people change their mind. he went to the issue of abortion. he said, when i talked about abortion back then i was a
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businessman. i didn't think anybody was listening. i didn't think it mattered what i said. now i'm strongly pro life. he's kind of all over the place on this stuff. >> yes, he is. as you guys mentioned, it appears now that all three republican candidates are backing away from their initial pledge to support the party's eventual nominee. remember the hand raising incident? >> yeah. >> here they all are in the town hall last night. take a look. >> essentially you're saying it's in the balance. you're kind of waiting to see? >> well, i would say that that would be a good way to describe it. i've got to see what happens. if the nominee is somebody that i think is really hurting the country and dividing the country, i can't stand behind them. we have a ways to go. let's see how this all folds out and then i'll let you know. >> so far is it fair to say that you believe donald trump looks like he would harm the country if he was the nominee? >> that'll be up to the voters here. i'm not going to get into that. that's too much below the belt. >> i'm not in the habit of supporting someone who attacks my wife and attacks my family. i think that is going beyond the
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line. >> so i just have to follow up. if donald trump is the gop nominee, would you support him? >> let me tell you my solution to that. dp donald is not going to be the gop nominee, we will beat him. >> i assume by you saying you -- >> i gave you my answer. listen, i think nominating donald trump would be an absolute train wreck. >> when i was pressing senator cruz on it, sounded like he was saying he'd have a hard time supporting somebody who -- >> honestly, he doesn't have to support me. i'm not asking for his support. >> do you want to -- >> i want the people's support. >> do you continue to pledge whoever the republican nominee is? >> no, i don't anymore. no, we'll see who it is. >> you won't promise to -- >> and he was essentially saying the same thing. let me just tell you, he doesn't have to support me. i have tremendous support right now from the people. >> kokie, you kind of laugh. he doesn't have to support me.
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it's donald trump. again, this is what politicians don't understand. everybody else won't answer the question, won't answer the question. and they're wondering why people are supporting this guy despite all the offensive things, all the things that offend us and offend new york and washington, it's because he just answers the question. i don't need the support and, no, i'm not going to be supporting him. he tells it like it is. >> the dumb game. the republican party is in control. >> or any party. >>nd the goldwater nomination, but this is -- this business of
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saying we won't support the nominee is unique. >> i wanted to go back to something you said, i don't think we should overlook it. you referenced the ideological boundaries of the gop and how that's being reshaped by donald trump. i think this is a sentinel moment when you look at it of how the party now reaffirms its commitment to the things it's always espoused because you have someone who is the front-runner who is pushing those boundaries on taxes, on trade, on a lot of things that the gop has held very firm on and yet you've got this surge within the party that is looking past those limits, you know, that we won't raise taxes, that we -- >> mike, what have i told you. >> came into education with dwight eisenhower, that's how it came into education. certainly the federal government with health care and the expansion of medicare under george bush. so i think the republican party has been in that place, it just
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hasn't talked about it. >> yeah. but not while they're running. >> yeah. >> michael, what if i told you a year ago that the guy that was going to be in first place, forget all the circus side show stuff would be pushing for more money for education, even if you have to tax for it, pushing for a lot more infrastructure, a lot more transportation spending, universal health care. >> yeah. >> going against free trade and also talking about taxing the rich. >> i'd say he would not be the leading nominee for the gop. >> you would say he would be at 1%. >> welcome to 2016. >> 2016. >> but i think we're missing a little something here. donald trump, not just that he's unorthodox as a conservative which he is. >> he's not a conservative. >> unorthodox as a republican. he's shifting, asymmetrical, whatever you want to call it. while he wants to protect the federal government's role in education, for instance, not so
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long ago he called for abolishing the department of education. i mean, those two things cannot co-exist. that is the federal government's role in education on one hand and he wants to abolish it on the other. it's tough to pin down what he believes. >> i've got something from the "huffington post." not long ago you had him in the entertainment section. >> i thought we had moved beyond that, mika. >> well, he can say the same. >> you would not have said we were done with that. >> no. well, because things change. go ahead. >> stipulating that donald trump is totally inconsistent on his policies, the one thing he is inconsistent, you talked about this yesterday morning, where i think there's a huge disconnect between the coast and what's happening with the republican party, if you think about the base, if you think about disenfranchised sort of white americans who feel like the country that they knew is slipping away from them -- >> yeah. >> -- and theyeel like they don't have a safety net, then you start to understand i get why he's saying this about
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entitlement and a robust president for federal government and education. >> but you were just describing, it was an old-fashioned democratic conservative southern democrat. >> right. >> that's what you were describing. >> right. >> someone who is -- was for all kinds of government programs that helped poor people. >> my parents in the depression in the deep south and a lot of other people in the deep south, again, you look at all of these things that he says he's supporting, it is what some conservatives in the deep south at least supported before. again, go back to what is it that we need to focus on. it's what we've been quoted for five years for jeffrey sax. real wages for white men in america have been on the decline since 1973. not 1993. since 1973.
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so kokie is exactly right, sam is exactly right. >> when he's talking about we need more transportation, more money for education, universal health care. that's the safety net. these working class republicans and democrats are supporting. >> and it also kind of gets to where we're going now with this next story and why the reaction, i think, is going to be different from what people in the media think. we'll start with this though last night ted cruz tried to explain why he's only recently tried to get so tough on donald trump. >> back in december you tweeted the establishment's only hope, trump and me in a cage match. sorry to disappoint, donald trump is terrific. that was after he had already made fun of carly fiorina's face, after he had gone after megyn kelly. at that point did you think donald trump was terrific? >> what i knew is the media was engage the in a love fest giving
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donald trump $2 billion of free -- >> sounds like you were in a love fest. how many hours of media, you let him call in for a year -- >> well, we've asked you for interviews pretty much every day and you've declined every offer on my program. you can come on every time. >> i've been inviting donald trump for several days to come and make this a debate. >> i can't -- >> you know what, hold it. right there. amen to anderson cooper. you know what, all of the candidates that whine about people letting donald trump call in. >> free media. >> the free media, it's ava available to them, too, but they obviously aren't smart enough to be able to handle it. ted cruz, of course, whines about cnn and fox letting donald trump call in. >> yeah. >> and yet ted cruz, as anderson cooper said, we've offered it to you every day as we on this show offer it to any candidate, major candidate that wants to call in and talk to us, our phone lines, as they say, our phone lines are open now. and you can call in right now.
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willie geist, the seventh caller, gets a free date with you! but, willie, i mean, seriously, this is what we heard. we have the same people that i'm just going to say it, bitch and whine about saying -- donald trump saw too much. we invite them every day. it's a standing offer every day and nobody calls in but donald trump. >> and it goes for both sides, by the way. >> both sides. >> democrats and republicans. we've said the same thing. we get them on the air, off the air privately that you give too much time to donald trump. we've got three hours every morning. the door is open. i think to anderson's original question though, it gets to that thing where lindsey graham is now backing ted cruz after he said he was poison or being shot. it gets 209 thing about chris christie or ben carson backing donald trump. americans watch this political process and they say this is completely disingenuous. you have politicians rallying behind people who they thought were the worst thing in the world and why? why ted cruz?
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why did you say donald trump was terrific? we know you didn't mean that. it's part of the reason donald trump's doing well. he's perceived at least publicly as being a guy who cuts through all of that, a guy who doesn't play any of those games. so i think there was more than a kernel of truth in anderson's question. i think ted cruz had a tough time answering it. >> also in that town hall donald trump defended his campaign manager, cory lewendowski and disputed the allegations made by the reporter against him. >> she said -- >> went to the 2k3wr0u7d or something to the effect that she almost went to the ground. she was in pain, she went to the ground. when she found out that there was a security camera and that they had her on tape, all of a sudden that story changed. >> she said her story has remained exactly the same. >> can i read this to you? do you mind if i read this? >> she was knocked and she remained standing. >> look at what she says. i hope, by the way, she's not a baby, okay? in her own words exactly, i was jolted backwards. well, she's standing there. someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm. tightly. and yanked me down.
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she wasn't yanked down, she was like -- she didn't even have any expression. if somebody in this audience gets whacked or hurt, including me, you get hit a little bit, you go wow. there's no emotion. wait a minute, i almost fell to the ground. i almost fell to the ground. she didn't almost fall to the ground. he got in her way. by the way, she was grabbing me. am i supposed to press charges against her? oh, my arm is hurting. >> you suggested you would. >> anderson, my arm has never been the same. >> you suggested you might. >> excuse me, i didn't. no, no, i tweeted. >> tweeted is a suggestion. >> should i press charges? >> are you going to? >> i don't know. maybe i shouldn't. >> i didn't suggest, i tweeted. >> indeed, trump spent much of the day yesterday supporting his campaign manager after he was arrested for allegedly grabbing the arm of michelle fields, i believe it was for assault, not for grabbing the arm. lewendowski is facing a criminal charge for battery, unwanted
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touching, a misdemeanor. the episode began after he said/she said after his press conference on march 8th as trump was exiting the ballroom when fields approached trump with a question. following the incident fields said in a statement, trump acknowledged the question, but before he could answer, i was jolted backwards. someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. i almost fell to the ground but was able to maintain my balance. washington post reporter ben terrace quoted fields, i'm just a little spooked, she said, a tear streaming down her face. no one has grabbed me like that before. reacting lewendowski tweeted to michelle fields. the surveillance videotape seemed to show that they never got the incident exactly right. first, there is an audio tape taken at the time of the incident. >> [ bleep ]. >> yeah, he just like threw you.
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>> i can't believe he just did that. that was so hard. was that corey? >> yeah. like what -- >> that was insane. you should have felt how hard he grabbed me. that's insane. oh, my gosh. i've never had anyone do that from a campaign. >> can i put that in my story? >> yeah. go for it. that was really awful. >> is that's so unprofessional. he literally went like grabbing me down. i don't want to do what he just did to me. oh, my god, that really spooked me. >> what was the threat? >> nothing i was asking about -- >> so, here is the closed circuit video released yesterday by the police, at that i can a look. >> so you can see lewendowski turned following the reporter there in yellow and you see him passing by her and that's where the alleged touching took place where she was almost thrown to the ground.
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lewendowski turned himself in yesterday morning to the police and was released. his lawyers say he is absolutely innocent. >> doesn't exactly look like chicago 1968. >> no. >> does that look like dan rather being roughed up? >> i was at chicago 1968. >> we're looking at these tapes like there's a zaruta films and you think about what happened -- >> no. >> -- than other people. >> it's nothing like that. nobody shoulding pulling a reporter away . >> especially campaign managers. >> she is a young woman and probably frightening for her. it's not a major incident, i think we can say that. still ahead on "morning joe," we could learn more about hillary clinton's use of private e-mails as secretary of state. we'll have the latest decision handed down from another federal judge, but, first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> well, mika, there's two stories out there.
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one is what's going to happen today and the other is what's going to happen this upcoming weekend as winter returns to the great lakes and new england. we're not seeing anything too bad, heavy rain, southern minnesota, snowstorm. casper will have a foot of snow on the ground before the end of today here's the severe weather threat. almost 19 million people at risk of severe storms, des moines, tulsa, oklahoma city, dallas. southern portion is the area i'm most concerned with. area of oranges is at risk. the potential of storms. shreveport, southern areas of arkansas. here's the timing of those storms. dallas, the storms form over the top of you right around the lunch hour. by 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m., northeast texas, southern arkansas, northern louisiana. this is the greatest threat for the tornadoes. storms through missouri. then tomorrow a heavy rain threat here in areas of the southeast. now let's talk about the cold.
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this is the temperatures, 13, 13, 9, negative wind chills in burlington, vermont possible as we go through the upcoming weekend. it's going to get much colder. some of our computers were hinting at the potential of snow sunday. then once again monday into tuesday. these are just a model. this isn't going to happen. there's at least a potential and something we'll need to watch closely. winter not done yet in the northeast. for areas in the northeast like new york, nice and mild over the next couple of days and then winter returns in a big way come sunday. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
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at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like social media equals anti-social. hey guys, i want you to meet my fiancée, denise. hey. good to meet you dennis. some say "free the whales." for them, nothing else is acceptable. but nothing could be worse for the whales. most of the orcas at seaworld were born here. sending them into the wild wouldn't be noble. it could be fatal. when they freed keiko, the killer whale of movie fame, the effort was a failure and he perished. but we also understand that times have changed. today, people are concerned about the world's largest animals like never before. so we too must change. that's why the orcas in our care will be the last generation at seaworld. there will be no more breeding. we're also phasing out orca theatrical shows.
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♪ ♪ geez, we were so lucky to have michael steele here. he's like this national celeb. >> everybody knows him. >> everybody knows michael.
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you're like the dude. you're awesome. >> yeah. like paul mccartney. >> a problem. >> i know. >> he's just -- you're so well known. >> this proves howell known michael steele is. roll the tape. focus for 2,000. >> in 2009 he became the first african-american chairman of the republican national committee. >> who is priebus? >> no. kent or doug? >> who is michael steele. the one before priebus. >> oh. >> what? >> priebus? >> yeah, i look like a priebus. >> at least they didn't use dr. ben carson's version of -- >> priebus. >> i can't believe he said priebus. >> henceforth you shall be reince. >> aren't you glad you aren't him today? second federal judge is now opening the door to letting a conservative watchdog group question the state department officials about hillary clinton's use of a private e-mail server while she was secretary of state. in a three-page order filed
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yesterday u.s. district senior judge royce lamberth granted a group to question her. the judge said her e-mail arrangement was extraordinary and said there have been, quote, constantly shifting admissions by the government and the former government officials regarding the server. clinton has maintained that she did what was allowed and that she didn't send or receive information marked classified. >> kokie roberts, they've now angered two federal judges, two. not one but they've now angered two federal judges. not a wise move. >> this story is not going to go away. that's clearly the case. and if i were she, i would like to get it all out right now. >> why isn't it going to go away? >> because it's just plodding its way through the court. it's plodding its way through the congress. >> is this media driven? >> to some degree, sure. i mean, i remember at one point
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last falling there had been something like 40 stories about her e-mails in the washington post and nothing -- you know, very little about her policy. >> do you think the story has legs? >> i think that it plays into the whole perception of her as untrustworthy. >> you have two right now, two federal judges angry. i know the first was i believe a clinton appointee, angered by the government's contact -- conduct. this -- this judge basically saying -- calling government out saying they're acting in bad faith. so the discovery's just going to continue. we found out last week, i guess, that there are 22 e-mails that were so sensitive the state department said releasing them would cause grave danger to the united states national security. this is -- seems to only be ramping up. >> yeah, and to the question of whether this is sort of a media story versus a real story, i
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think the bigger problem is not just the media, it's the fbi, you have scores of people at the fbi are clearly dug in on this case and who are leaking lots of material to said reporters and you have two judges that are now making it easier for people to go after the material. if you think about hillary clinton's probably right, there's been a disproportionate amount of coverage on this. i think most of the times when we're talking about hillary on this show or other shows, it's almost always about the e-mail scandal which does go to the heart of hillary clinton's problem, which is most people think she is dishonest. we have not paid that much attention to that because we're talking about the unfavorable ratings of donald trump. in all likelihood you're going to head into the general election with two candidates who a majority of americans think are dishonest. that says something about our politics. i think it says something about how nasty the campaign will be and i think as nasty as it's been now, we chuckle about it, it's going to be 100 times worse in the general election. can you imagine what donald trump -- >> he said -- he's been saying over the last few days, i haven't even started in on
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hillary yet. >> but for donald trump, mika, but for donald trump who has disapproval numbers in the 60s -- >> yeah. >> -- we would all be talking about a democratic nominee with disapproval ratings in the mid 50s. >> but you know i -- >> this is extraordinary. >> what i took out of that story, big torey about the fbi and all of that, is that 147 fbi agents are focused on this. don't they have other problems? >> now they claim it's closer to 50. >> only 50. >> only 50. >> there's no crime in the country they should be worrying about? >> might be. >> 50 sources. >> yeah. >> reporter assault. >> reporter assault. coming up on "morning joe," assault charges about donald trump's campaign manager. standing by his campaign manager. "morning joe" is back in a moment. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs,
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she grabbed me by the arm. she grabbed me by the arm twice. i pushed her off. you can see that very clearly. she said that she was jolted backwards. in fact, her exact words, she was jolted backwards. he somehow grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. >> mr. trump, now you're saying that she -- >> savannah, she made up this story, savannah. she was yanked -- she said she was yanked down. this was before she found out there was a security camera on her. it was my security camera.
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i supplied the security camera and the tape. >> that was donald trump speaking this morning with the "today" show. let's bring in nbc news national correspondent peter alexander. he is live in jupiter, florida. peter, the latest on the trump campaign story on his manager facing a misdemeanor charge of battery or unwanted touching. what is the latest in the booming metropolis of jupiter, florida? >> reporter: yeah, gorgeous jupiter, florida. this is where corey lewendowsky came and met with officers. he's in court on may 4th. that's the time when the prosecutors will ultimately decide whether to pursue this charge as you noted, simple battery, unwanted touching, a misdemeanor right now. we've been speaking to legal experts and saying simply based on the facts right now, there is all sorts of corroborating evidence. there was audio, the videotape
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that you've now seen that police says shows corey lewendowsky grabbing her and a reporter from the post who saw this. traditional battery is something that's pursued between two private citizens perhaps after a bar fight. this is the campaign manager for the front-runner on the republican side for president. defense attorneys say perhaps the best defense for core corey lewendowsky would be that he was trying to defend his boss. the defense of others, that he believed that this reporter was aggressively reaching out, trying to touch as donald trump said himself, that she grabbed me twice. so that's where things stabbed at this time right now in this case. lewendowsky's side says he's absolutely innocent. >> thank you. former ted cruz campaign communications director, now msnbc political contributor fortunately on the sidelines during a very messy time in this
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campaign, rick tyler. also conservative strategist and contributor to "the washington examiner" lisa booth and margaret carlson. renice priebus still with us. how did they get that wrong on "jeopardy"? margaret, the chaos on this campaign just continues. >> yeah. >> it's not chicago '68, it's not close, it's not dan rather getting beaten up on the floor, not close, but this is the era of trump and, wow. >> defining dbnc down. we keep going lower per senator mown na han and what we accept as, you know, each time it goes lower and, oh, wow, i didn't expect that to happen. but, you know, the idea though that one of the guests said that loyalty that donald trump is showing to lewendowsky will be
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admired. >> bob woodward. >> i think the base have been grabbed than the ones looking for loyalty. when you look at the tape and you see it, you're kind of -- it's kind of shocking. shocking to me. >> what's shocking? >> what's shocking is -- >> what's shocking to you? >> that somebody grabs and touches another person. didn't you tell joey, just do it with words, you're not allowed to -- you don't grab. >> joey would have a lot more problems than the jupiter police department if he grabbed a woman and pulled her back. >> you've taught them not to do that. if i had been grabbed i would have been shocked by it. >> yeah. >> a lot of the commentary is what a sissy she is. barbara -- i saw one, barbara walters would have never done that. i beg to differ. i think she would have. >> i think as mika said, what barbara walters probably would have done is got in their face, threatened to punch them and said, i'm going to have every exclusive interview from your campaign for the next six months. that's what mika said she would do. she would turn a disadvantage into an advantage. lisa, the thing that is so sh k
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shocking to me is the republican on republican in fighting whether you go on twitter, whether you're listening to talk radio, whatever you're doing, it is constant. it is vicious. it is against trump and you just wonder, how does this party come together if he does get the delegates needed? >> i don't think it just is specific to the republican party right now. i think we're seeing peak polarization across the board among ideological lines. if you look at just what has happened in american politics over the past couple of weeks, i think there's a lot of americans that are sitting back right now and are just disappointed in the system as a whole. i think that's why you have distrusting government. let's recap the past couple of weeks. we've had a national inquirer story. we've had a campaign manager who is facing a misdemeanor batterer. we have a president in the wake of the belgium attack. we have belgium who has seen the second worst attack in world war ii, given it 50 cents in time.
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he did the wave, dancedle the tango in argentina, meanwhile there are 147 agents dedicated to the case. they've given one staffer immunity, they're interviewing others and the probe is extended to the clinton foundation. i think there are a lot of americans that are sitting back right now and saying a pox on everyone's house. >> on both sides. donald trump's disapproval rating's mid 60s, high 60s, who's counting at this point. hillary's, mid 50s. high 50s. i mean, anything can happen going into this general election, can't it? because they really are. they are disgusted with both parties. >> and what you have here is you have two sort of interlopers into each party because bernie sanders is not really a democrat, he's a democratic socialist who's running as a democrat and you have donald trump who is essentially a third party candidate. the establishment doesn't have a candidate who can win. define his ideology, donald
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trump's. we were talking about it last night. he's getting on scott walker for not raising taxes to pay for education. he's for more transportation. he's for single payer health care. you can go down the line. he's against free trade. unfettered free trade. what is his ideology as best as you can tell? >> i don't think he has one. i think he's -- he's positioned himself as a populist and michael steele and i were talking earlier. i think when michael told me in the greenroom, i'll steal your line, it's right, is that people just want politicians to tell them the truth. >> yeah. >> and they believe that donald trump is telling the truth. but donald trump -- something strange about this guy. he turns everything into a spectacle. even this lewendowsky thing. it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. the problem is, they lied about it. >> right. >> he said i never touched you, went further to say, i never even met you. then they went on a smear campaign. then there seems to be very close relationships between trump and breitbart. breitbart doesn't back up their
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reporter, they back up lewendowsky. the question will be what did he tell investigators and did he know that there was the security tape? i assume he did because it was trump property that provided it. >> right. i want to follow up with you on the new reality for american media in the wake of donald trump. do you think there's been a transformation? we've seen the transformation in politics, certainly in terms of how political candidates and parties have had to deal with donald trump, for example? he's the asymmetrical player. how do you see the press adapting to this asymmetrical player in this very -- trying to do a very conventional coverage of a donald trump? and what does that say about the future of the relationship between the media and political candidates? >> you know, everything has been disrupted, you know, cabs, hotels, where we stay, politics, and the media has to adjust to politics being disrupted this year and has tried, but what happens, i think, is we still
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partly play the old game. glen thrush of politico told me for three weeks he cataloged every inaccuracy to be benign about it for donald trump but then he just gave up because there were so many and it didn't make any difference. that kind of reporting doesn't make any difference in this race. so you're left with -- >> where does that leave us in reporting? >> going back on the pledge, too, i was thinking, a pledge doesn't mean -- i mean, they all just reneged on it because there is -- the standards are you can say something and take it back. what you say doesn't have to be true. >> right. >> corey doesn't have to tell the truth unless he was under oath, as you say, you know, and maybe -- >> this is of course not the first time politicians have made pledges and then backed off on it. barack obama -- >> i'm not going to take public financing and then he gets a billion dollars. >> it was designed to keep him in line. >> keep him in line.
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>> for the others to get rid of him. >> quickly, lisa, will the republican establishment get behind donald trump if he gets the 1237 at the convention? >> i think that's the big question. i don't know the answer to that. i think there are people -- republicans that are going to rather have donald trump lose in a general election than have him in the white house. >> right. >> i don't know if that's necessarily the smartest move. i think donald trump would ultimately be better than hillary clinton but i do think there are going to be some republicans that carry that mind set. >> at the end of the day if he gets 1237 it will be hard to say i'm going to let lrk win and appoint three liberal justices to the supreme court. >> although you don't know who he's going to appoint. >> exactly. >> probably won't be three liberals. >> one and a half. who knows. rick, thank you so much. lisa, thank you. thanks for being here. coming up next, fed chair janet yellen said something that sent wall street futures up around 100 points this morning. sara eisen will be with us to
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o owe. can't lift the hammer, can you? >> i can lift -- >> no, you can't. let's bring in cnbc's sara eisen. futures looking good. tell me about it. >> looking good after they closed stocks yesterday at the highest level of 2016. it is a janet yellen celebration. the fed chairman yesterday in a speech in new york city said that, quote, the fed should proceed cautiously with raising rates. that's basically central bank speak for, calm down, we're still worried about the global economy. we're still worried about the u.s. we're not quite seeing the inflation or rising consumer prices we need to see to raise interest rates. we're not going to be in a hurry. it was a pro growth message and it was taken as very soothing, not just for u.s. stocks but stocks rallying over the world. overnight in china the stock
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market there had its best day in about a month. and something else important happened with janet yellen. not only did she offer some reassurance that the fed is going to be cautious, she also took control of the message. this is very important because over the last week and a half or so other members of the fed, some of the regional fed presidents, there are 17 members of the fed have come out and said the economy is doing well. we may raise interest rates in april. janet yellen made it clear, guys, that she is in control and she set the tone for the federal reserve. we're going to take it slow. we're going to wait until we see better growth. back to you. >> sara, thank you so much. coming up, hillary clinton has katy perry, but how much of a difference does celebrity endorsement make? louis has it next on "morning joe." for those who've served and the families that have supported them,
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a lot of people think to themselves, well, if it's donald trump and hillary clinton, i think bernie sanders probably would think that. >> i think bernie would probably encourage people because he doesn't have any ego in this thing, but i think a lot of people are sorry. i just can't bring myself to do that. >> how about you personally? >> i don't know. i'm going to see what happens. >> really? >> really. >> i cannot believe as you're watching -- >> people feel donald trump will bring the revolution immediately. >> that was susan sarandon who said she would have a difficult time voting for hillary clinton.
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louis caught up with the award winning actress who had a lot more to say. louis. >> reporter: that's right, mika. there are plenty of a-listers hitting the campaign trail. the big question is does star power translate into votes? >> senator bernie sanders! >> hillary! hillary! >> it's time for a woman to be in there. >> should be president of the united states, that's what they should be. >> hillary clinton. >> senator bernie sanders. >> i'll be voting for ms. clinton. >> donald trump has the wherewithal, the knowledge, the awareness of this country. >> celebrities are rich, powerful, and sometimes political. in the age of social media, their influence is greater than ever. every week we hear another story line about a celebrity and a candidate. from campaign ads -- >> i've looked at the candidates, ted cruz is my man. he fits the bill. >> this is your dude, spike lee, and i am officially endorsing my brother, bernie sanders. >> reporter: appearances at
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rallies. >> let's go, hillary! >> i do like me some trump, i've got to admit. >> i feel the bern! >> reporter: tweets and instagram posts viewed by millions. there have been half endorsements. >> you have the trump hat up there. have you talked to him at all? do you have any advice for his big debate tonight? >> no. >> will ferrell was listed on bernie sanders website as a celebrity endorsement until this. >> caucus, voter. >> reporter: comedian sarah silverman had the opposite change of heart. >> i'm not against hillary, just i met someone i have more in common with, and his name is bernie sanders. >> reporter: if anyone has six figures to spare, you and a date can break bread can george clooney and hillary clinton. just don't expect hillary clinton to be there. >> i have a lot of respect for george clooney. he's a great actor. i like him. it is obscene that secretary
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clinton keeps going to big money people to fund her campaign. >> reporter: while getting celebrities to raise money and attract attention for candidates is nothing new. the question remains, does star power pay off at the ballot box? >> it helps you get money, helps you get attention but once the campaign really gets going, i think people are making up their own minds. >> i think in general celebrity endorsements all go to the democrats and they have a minimum impact. >> i give you bernie sanders. >> reporter: i caught up with two of bernie sanders most active celebrity surrogates to find out why they're so willing to put themselves out there for the candidate's cause. >> everybody has a difference of opinion. that's what america is. everybody has an idea of what, you know, it should be and you look around and you -- you know, you take a stand. the main thing is not to sit home and imagine that it's all going to happen. >> reporter: do you think that celebrity endorsements work? do you think they're effective? >> that's a good question. i don't think they work unless
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you have -- can really explain the issues behind and a candidate has a good record, but i think unfortunately that sometimes what a celebrity can do is get a space in the media when the media hasn't been covering it. >> reporter: it's hard to say how many votes they gain or lose but one thing is star power is hard to ignore. >> people see celebrities or individuals they look up to being involved in politics, it encourages them to be involved, too. >> people don't really listen unless you have a big name behind you unfortunately. >> it makes him a more viable candidate. as we've seen with hillary, had a lot of celebrity endorsement. >> i am a little shallow and i like seeing celebrities. >> hey, you want to register to vote? oh, maybe. oh, danny divitto is over there, they go running. >> reporter: mika, never a dull moment. once celebrities hit the trail. most don't believe it means much when it comes to the voting
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booth, but seeing firsthand how they reacted to susan ser ran din and danny devito may have more of an impact. mika, back to you. >> susan saran din is -- >> am i all right? >> little nerve racking. >> stop it. >> very narrow shoulders. >> that does it for us this morning. >> i'm leaving this set. >> that does it for us this morning. >> i never touched him. >> stop. i am not part of this. >> after a quick break i give you steve kornacki. ♪ ♪ you've finally earned enough reward miles on your airline credit card. now you just book a seat, right? not quite. sometimes those seats are out of reach, costing an outrageous number of miles. it's time to switch...
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hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too.
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hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changing challenges like making planes, trains and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time i should be there. oh, i don't hire people. i'm a developer. i'm gonna need monday off. again,ot my call. pledge? what pledge? good wednesday morning. i'm steve kornacki. the republican presidential candidates are no longer guaranteeing that they will support their own party's eventual nominee. all but throwing out that much-wanted loyalty pledge they had signed with such fanfare last year. ted cruz and john kasich both hinting last night that donald trump's comments and his behavior over the last few months could result in them pulling their support from him if he winshe

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